Dr Jo Braid audio 090626
===
Megan Walker: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Healthcare Thought Leaders show. I'm Megan Walker, and today our very special guest is Dr. Jo Braid. Hi Jo, how are you?
Dr. Jo Braid: Great, thank you Megan. How are you?
Megan Walker: Very well, thank you. I'm gonna get Jo to do a lovely intro of herself soon. But I came across Jo on LinkedIn, and you know, it really does speak to the power of having a regular and a social media presence that is social
Another follow-up session to do on that one pro- possibly Jo. Yes. Um, and I really love what Jo is talking about in burnout and recovery, and preventing burnout. And Jo has, is a healthcare speaker and a burnout expert. And so as many of you who follow me and are interested in what I'm doing in the space of becoming a healthcare thought leader, I wanted to have this conversation so we can explore how to keep our really valuable clinicians in the profession for longer.
And so if there is that tiredness and that [00:01:00] fatigue, then perhaps it doesn't mean leaving the perme- profession, it might mean just it looks dressed up differently. So Jo, how does that sound? And give us a, a bit of a background about yourself.
Dr. Jo Braid: Sure. Thank you so much Megan, and yeah, great to connect with you on LinkedIn.
Uh, so yeah, I'm a doctor of over 20 years, and the specialty I've gone into is rehabilitation medicine, particularly traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury as well. Um, more recently, I guess within the last five to six years, um, I've also upskilled as a coach, particularly in leadership, and I'm a podcast host of nearly four years, and a keynote speaker as well.
So, um, I've, I've really loved having a really creative career, um, which probably came about from ending up moving rurally. So there were sort of fewer medical jobs out this way, and um, my y- my opportunities to do something differently were maybe, uh, [00:02:00] broader here, and um, have just loved the way that this career has unfolded, I guess.
Megan Walker: Oh, amazing. Ooh, that's a really interesting lead-in. So pardon me. I can, I can already hear that necessity has been the, the mother of creativity for you. Um- Yeah ... tell us a little bit more about that. How far are you based out from a regional, uh, in regional, um... Sorry, take that bit out. How far are you based from a, um, capital city?
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah, great question. So we're about three and a half hours from either Canberra or Sydney. So we're three hours west over the Blue Mountains in Orange, New South Wales.
Megan Walker: Beautiful. Yeah. Oh, wonderful. Mm. And so for many of our clinicians listening who are being pulled towards teaching, advocacy or the space of thought leadership, let's hear from you in your journey.
You've already talked about moving to a, a regional area, um, needing to look at different ways of delivering your message. What else was sort of driving you to step more into this coaching space? [00:03:00]
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah, such a good question. So it, it was, um, when I had three kids under six and I decided to open my own rehab clinic here privately in Orange.
Um, and it all just stacked and it didn't happen overnight. Burnout never happens overnight. It is a slow burn and a slow sort of spiral. So I opened that in 2017 and I would say 2019, 2020 I- Was just running short on, um, energy, irritability, fuse, um, quite solo with what I was doing as well. Um, and, you know, very, very fixed and responsible on the family as well, but also putting a lot into my clinic too.
And I ended up having coaching with a doctor who's a coach from the US and her team, and absolutely loved the mindset tools that they shared with me that were so, like, actionable, really understood myself a lot better. I love to get [00:04:00] behind why things work, you know, Megan. And so I decided to upskill in the same training program that they had done.
Over 200 doctors have gone through this coaching in the US. Uh, it was virtual. Did that in COVID, opened up my coaching practice, closed my clinic, and I've, uh, still combined my medical career and now my coaching career since 2021. So that was the pivot point, the learning, or the pivot point, the coaching, and then upskilling in that, in that way.
Megan Walker: Oh, that's so inspirational for a lot of people listening. I know a lot have learned experience of either a health tragedy or something that's happened with a family member or personally. It is that burning platform sometimes that you can see, do I keep going the same way and have more of the same? But for you, you were amazingly resourceful in going, "Hang on, I'm gonna change this."
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah.
Megan Walker: Would you recommend that for other clinicians listening?
Dr. Jo Braid: Well, I think that's such a good point, Megan, because we can [00:05:00] be so committed to our work that we have spent years and years in training and upskilling and get the, getting the experience, the expertise, and the credibility about, and it can be so hard to have that idea of quitting.
I don't, I don't subscribe to the notion that quitting is the solution to burnout because unless you've really worked on yourself and worked on your mindset, that same person is gonna enter another workplace or another kind of work, and particularly having that maybe Type A personality or high-achieving personality, it's really likely that the burnout would follow you and go to another workplace as well.
So I think growing that self-awareness, which is what coaching did for me, whether that's coaching or therapy, often it's what people might need to then reevaluate, do I go back to the same place or do I tweak how I am in the same place, um, so, so that you can set yourself up for that success and that [00:06:00] sustainability, which is what I particularly work on with clients rather than- Another sort of short-lived six months and then going, "I'm in the same place again."
Megan Walker: Yeah, so looking at the patterns that are underneath that are driving that behavior. Whether the environment changes, the patterns are still there.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yes. Well said. Yeah. The environment often needs addressing too, and that's a, a big part of the puzzle too, but yeah, we might get to that. Mm.
Megan Walker: And something that I could see from the outside looking in that it looks like you've mastered really well is taking on that position of visibility, which is so important, goes hand in glove with the work that you're doing.
If people don't know that you're there, how can you help and, you know, reach and help them? Sure. Did you have any hesitation having been a- Yeah ... traditionally trained clinician and then suddenly putting your face on things and voice on things? Tell us about that transition. Sure.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah, it was hard. It definitely was hard.
It didn't feel, um, easy and, uh, you know, there [00:07:00] are sort of AHPRA rules. We definitely have to be clear around, um, testimonials as well. It's great for you if you've got healthcare practitioners you're working with to be clear on what they can and can't share. But when I, uh, made it, I guess, quite emotive and talked about- shifts that if I'd personally had those as well, that resonate and land with pe- people, um, that didn't necessarily seem so bad.
Um, just doing it regularly, just getting that consistency and getting over that hill of this is new, this is new, this is new, that we have all done in our careers, right? We've all started as a beginner somewhere. Um, it, it became, it did became, become easier. Um, and now I engage a social media, media manager who helps me a lot and really gets my brand and my brain, um, of, of what to share on social media now.
So I've outsourced to more support, but, um, yeah, it's, it's hard at the beginning and it does get [00:08:00] easier. And those seeds that you share, or those seeds that you sow, I guess, through the social media, um, will, you'll reap them later on and I'm certainly finding that now after a lot of time of consistency online that, uh, people definitely know about you, I guess.
Megan Walker: Yeah. I love that. Mm. I often say to clients, it's, it's so uncomfortable and it's so fear-evoking, but channel into the greater good. And so this is a vehicle for good- Yeah ... not just the evil that we know social media for. Yeah. We know there's a lot of damage, but it's also a wonderful platform and the most cost-effective way to reach people and help them.
So-
Dr. Jo Braid: Yes ...
Megan Walker: push through the discomfort
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah ...
Megan Walker: it's good on the other side.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yes. And maybe just remind them that, um, visibility is not the same sort of as self-promotion, which can be really, um, uncomfortable and not what people want to do. We don't necessarily have that mindset as clinicians. It's just helping one person at a time.
If one person reads your post and they get something from that, that's amazing. You may never [00:09:00] know, but still. Yeah.
Megan Walker: I, I like what you said there and I, I was actually gonna ask you about how do you protect your energy, having gone through that personal lived experience- Mm ... and knowing how important an energy is, I'm sure.
Dr. Jo Braid: Sure.
Megan Walker: Even with social media, like, do you hold back a little bit of personal information? Do you hold, where are your boundaries now to-
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah ...
Megan Walker: for professionalism, but also for your energy?
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah, such a good question, Megan. Um, so it's kinda like there's only so many platforms you can be on at once, I do think.
Um, I really rarely use my personal, um, profiles at all. So I really just focus on my business profiles if I'm going to be putting anything on. I don't do much at the weekends- But sometimes if something's happening the next week, I'll, I'll put a story on in the evening. Um, I have really clear boundaries around my work days and my work hours, and as a small business owner, you have to sort of honor that and create that for yourself [00:10:00] without actually maybe being in a formal workplace.
Um, and I am really mindful about the things that pep up my energy as well. So connection time's really important to me. Sport, movement, playing tennis with friends is really important to me as well, connecting with my kids. Um, so to know what fills your cup rather than the things that drain your cup only is, is really important for me.
I hope that gives a little bit of idea of how I, I support my energy to keep going. 'Cause if you know you can burn out, you can still burn out again unless you're really addressing that, even in a small business model.
Megan Walker: Yes. Oh, that's so much wisdom in that, just those statements there or everything you've said.
And so looking back now on how you manage your energy versus how you might have approached that when you were a clinician and, and the model, I'm gonna guess, having worked with thousands of clinicians is do more- Yes ... versus now, like, be replenished so you can serve [00:11:00] from a, from a full cup. I- I'm really interested in that because I- I've had my own personal journey.
This is why I work this way. You know, you're delivering at scale as well. I look at you and, and would call you a thought leader, whether that's a, a label you put on yourself.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah.
Megan Walker: Tell me about the difference in energy care from that clinical model to now and the benefits of the way you work in comparison, side by side.
Dr. Jo Braid: Okay. Great question. So I am still clinical, so I still do six to eight days clinical per month. Actually, on sort of my standard months, I guess, I do locums, so they fill in and they fill up the days sometimes as well. So I look to have days, quiet days after doing busy days, if you see what I mean. So days off and schedule that in for sure.
Um, today for example, is lots of piecemeal things through the day- [00:12:00] Which naturally leads to breaks. So after this I'm going to the gym, and that is great movement time for me and change of cognitive load as well, so I can just sort of get away from my screen and focus on wellbeing and health and longevity and so forth there.
Um, yeah, I think also just not feeling guilty to say, "I'm taking 20 minutes now," which sometimes can be so different if we're a busy clinician and we're running clinic, or we're running on the sort of hospital-wide schedule that we're on. So then if you're talking to small business owners, just look at that autonomy that you do have and that choice that you have made to be a small business owner, and then how do you look after you in being the best version of yourself that you can be, um, in, in what you've created as your new workplace.
Megan Walker: Yes. I love that. You, you have permission. I know I left... I was a hospital executive [00:13:00] 20 years ago, and I still have that, "Gosh, have I put in my, my at least my 50 hours for the week?" And it's like, hang on, stop thinking in hours and start thinking in contribution and lifestyle and blended. Yes. And this like hustle, hustle, hustle of you have to be the first in, turn the lights on, turn the lights off, or otherwise you're just not a good p- team performer.
You know that kind of letting all that shackle go-
Dr. Jo Braid: Yes ...
Megan Walker: into now hang on, what actually works for you? And this is such a great model that you've already described, your flexibility, that you're getting your health in there.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yes.
Megan Walker: Getting your friendships and social connectivity.
Dr. Jo Braid: Absolutely.
Megan Walker: Changing up your cognitive load through the day.
I mean, this is such- Yeah ... powerful information. Thank you so much for being so open with us in this conversation.
Dr. Jo Braid: My pleasure. Happy to help.
Megan Walker: Let's talk about what you do. How, what sort of services do you offer? I'm really curious, and I'm sure others listening are interested in, you know, what, what does it look like to work with you?
Dr. Jo Braid: Sure. Okay, that's s- such a great question. So, um, [00:14:00] this is an energy preservation technique I've also done, but I've made my coaching wait list only, which sort of allows me to, um, be flexible around when I do open my calendar for coaching. So historically I had it as sort of my calendar was always available, people could slot in whenever they wanted.
That worked to a degree, but as I moved between Sydney and Orange, then people had to be rescheduled. So I've just made it wait list only. People reach out, I reach back to them, I drop them the magic link, and they can access my calendar then. So that's one way you can work with me. I do, uh, really laser-focused sort of one-on-one coaching, um, hear exactly what's going on for you.
And quite a few people just like a monthly coaching session with me. So it's a, a monthly one-hour check-in, um, and see how things are progressing. Historically, I did much more weekly coaching packages, right? Um, I also do speaking and workshops, which I really love doing. So I've got some [00:15:00] local workshops happening.
I'm going to the Creative Careers in Medicine conference in Go- Gold Coast in September. I'm leading a wellbeing workshop at our rehab society meeting in Darwin. Um, so that's fun 'cause then you are going to scale exactly like you're saying, and you reach many more in the room. Uh, it's less individual of course.
And then my podcast I think is the biggest scale that I do out of anything. Um, and so the podcast takes a bit of time, a bit of prep, recording, goes off to the producer, comes back for a check. Um- Yeah, so I think those are my three ways that people, I guess, can work with me, with the podcast being the most accessible, huge da- database, if you want to call it that.
Over 180 episodes on lots and lots of topics related to burnout, wellbeing, longevity, and some great guests on there as well.
Megan Walker: Amazing.
Dr. Jo Braid: So I hope that sort of answers- Yes ... all of that for you.
Megan Walker: Yeah. [00:16:00] It does. And I, I really, um, I'd love to ask you about working in this way as a thought leader for people who are, you know, feeling exhausted, they're feeling that grind, they, they're sustaining the seven, eight patient face-to-face a day- Yeah
is just getting too much. What would you say to people who are considering working like you are, in a more creative way that suits and serves you better?
Dr. Jo Braid: Sure.
Megan Walker: Tell us your advice.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah. Great, great question. Um, I would keep it simple. I think this is, uh, like, as old as the hills kind of advice But keep it simple.
So think about what your message is, think about what platform you want to be on. Just go for one. Um, and then, you know, the, the, reaching people via social media is possibly one of the easiest ways to start. I don't know what these people might be doing as their business model, if they would be coaching or [00:17:00] consulting or, or what their model might be there.
But just think about what your message is on social media, 'cause that really helps you refine what you're trying to say to people. And then when that lands, they'll start reaching out to you. Um, I'd also say start before you feel ready. You know, often we're like perfectionists, and we just wait for this thing to happen, then this thing to happen.
But no, it's okay. You've got so much expertise in yourself already. If you're running busy clinics, eight, like, 45-minute patients per day, um, there's a lot you know already. And what you know already is really gonna help somebody else who may be at the same stage as you, or may be coming through, uh, the program, um, to where you are.
So yeah, start before you're ready, keep it simple, and be, be prepared for some of the discomfort that comes along the way. And I'm sure you've been through discomfort and got through it before. It's just a feeling. Feelings don't actually hurt us, so we can get through these uncomfortable feelings. I hope that is a few points.
Oh,
Megan Walker: yes. So [00:18:00] good. Um, looking back on making this transition i- into your thought leadership role, what do you wish you'd understood earlier about influence, leadership, or growing, like, a visibility platform in healthcare?
Dr. Jo Braid: What do I wish I'd understood earlier? Okay. Mm-hmm
I guess consistency compounds, so it feels really slow at the beginning. And, uh, my podcast, for example, the numbers and the listens, I'm sure it was just me and mom listening again for a few times. Yes. And now it's like 350 listens per episode on average. Great. And that is a big- That's huge ... auditorium of people.
Um, so just keep keeping on showing up, um, and it, it starts to pay off. Um, I think bringing your own vulnerability, and that is part of leadership that is so needed in medicine, whether you're talking thought leadership, Megan- Mm-hmm ... or whether you're talking not general, but leadership [00:19:00] within organizations.
When we can show that we can be vulnerable and we haven't got everything right all the time, and we can say what's going on, on for us as well to a degree, that brings that trust and that human element and growing that relationship. So I'd say if you feel you can do that as a thought leader and/or in the pl- in the place that you work as well, if you can work on it with those that you work with, you can then work on it with strangers as well in that sort of wider social media platform.
Um, and maybe I just took longer to get going with all of this than I could have. I mean, I'm not upset in how it all has transpired and flowed on, but, um, I would encourage people to, to just get started. People want other people to connect with. It's not titles that they're really looking for.
Megan Walker: So good. I was speaking with a, a lady yesterday who is a doctor, and she was saying, "Oh, do you think I also need a [00:20:00] PhD?"
And I said, "Well, then you'd be a doctor doctor." I think it's enough, you know, like knowing when. Yeah. And, and what's- If we scratch that surface, what's underneath that that's holding people back? And often it's just that fear of what peers might say or-
Dr. Jo Braid: Yeah ...
Megan Walker: things like that. So yeah, it's really interesting.
Just one of the messages that you've said is just moving forward, like starting, start almost imperfectly. Yes. Ugh, even though that feels cringe. Yes. And just knowing that it's going to work and it's going to compound.
Dr. Jo Braid: Yes.
Megan Walker: And yeah, I love it. Everything you're saying is so great. Oh, thank you. And so what does the meaning of success look like for you at this stage of your career?
Dr. Jo Braid: Oh, gosh. Um, I got a message from somebody in the UK the other week who's been listening to my podcast for ages. We have never connected on a coaching call and, um, she has changed so much about her working hours and her work breaks, while still a [00:21:00] lot of the system that she works in has not changed.
Megan Walker: Oh.
Dr. Jo Braid: But I think a lot of the podcast has helped her go, "Oh, okay." I, and I won't discli- disclose anymore just for privacy reasons. Of course. But I know that this is landing for other people who then choose to email me and tell me about that, like a five paragraph email. So that's profound. That's great. People I possibly will never meet in my life.
Um- I guess if we've got organizations bringing in wellbeing into their, um, departments. So I did do the Stanford Department, um, Director of Wellbeing course, and now one of my roles, uh, they're actually asking me to include wellbeing as part of my clinical day that I'm doing. So I love being in this space where both parts, the clinical work, but also the wellbeing for the clinicians and, um, that culture piece and the leadership piece there as well really being valued and seen by exec, um, [00:22:00] is, is very exciting going forwards.
Um, and I guess when you work, you either work with somebody or you leave a clanger in the podcast aiming that, um, what you've said or what you've had in a conversation, it just outlasts that conversation that you've had. It, it lands, and from there more things grow and, and I hope that I can do that for, for people.
I hope that, um, particularly my podcast, it's just my creative space that I, I know is always there for people, um, a bit of a legacy to leave and hope that that can help others now, now and going forwards.
Megan Walker: Oh, how amazing. So not only are you teaching and educating at scale, you're having impact at scale, which just must be so rewarding, and I love that that's your measure of success.
That's just so delightful. And those are messages of people's lives who've just changed, like that lady taking [00:23:00] breaks now. That's huge, isn't it? Yeah. Like, simple things of... But what that represents, I imagine, is huge, like, for her worth and permission and so forth. Private situation, I know. Yeah. But I love that, that your work is just having that global impact now.
It is. How exciting. It is. That's a real legacy, isn't it? That you can look back with the, you know, the rocking chair test and go, "Yep, I did it." That's it. Wonderful.
Dr. Jo Braid: Thanks.
Megan Walker: Yeah. So by now people are, are listening and going, "Oh, there's Jo Bray. She's fantastic." So tell us where we can hear your podcast and where people can reach out and follow you and your social media.
Give us all of the where we go from here.
Dr. Jo Braid: Thank you, Megan. Yeah, so The Burnout Recovery Podcast is available on all the standard podcast platforms, Audible, Spotify, Apple, and more. Um- I h- am on my website, Dr. Jo Braid, and the socials, most of them I'm the, the Burnout Recovery Doctor. Um, love to hear from you there if you want to, um, say hi, [00:24:00] and people can send me emails as well.
My link's through my website there, and I will respond personally to you with, with delight.
Megan Walker: Mm. Amazing. And so final words from you, Jo. We've had... You've taught us so much. You've been so generous. Thank you.
Dr. Jo Braid: Thanks. About,
Megan Walker: gosh, you've covered everything from permission to, to work in a way that works for you, your own journey through burnout and, you know, co- designing this, your values and how they're playing out on a global scale, overcoming the fear of being visible.
Like, you've just touched on so much. Mm. Is there anything that you would like to say in closing to our clinician listeners who are thinking, "Look, I am feeling the tiredness of traditional work. I have got a big body of knowledge. I do now wanna follow and, and educate more."
Dr. Jo Braid: Mm.
Megan Walker: What would you say to those people?
We wanna keep them in the profession, but we want them to look after themselves. Yeah. What's, what's your final words there?
Dr. Jo Braid: Uh, I would say connect with others who are either doing this [00:25:00] work or, you know, have support around you because with support we know, we know the benefit of social connection. Like, undoubtedly, um, there's huge biological advantages for doing that, and I would say it can feel really lonely when you start doing something different, and we can often be our own worst enemy in judging ourselves harsher than anybody else would judge us.
I have had coaching for many, many years, but certainly, uh, since 2020 ongoing, and my weekly catch-up with my coach is a fabulous space to be in. She's not medical at all, and that is great. Um, but there are, there are coaches Australia-wide and beyond, and that might be a kind of support to just really help you land in a safe space to support you in this shift and change that will have some of those gnarly feelings as you go along the way.
Megan Walker: Beautiful. Well said. Thank you again so much, Jo. Looking forward to following you and hanging on [00:26:00] your every word, and it's been a, a delight. Thanks so much for sharing your info today.
Dr. Jo Braid: Thank you so much, Megan.
