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Megan Walker: Hello, and welcome to Market Savvy Conversations. My name is Megan Walker, and our very special guest today is Meg Burrage. Hi Meg, how are you?

Meg Burrage: Hello, Megan. So lovely to be talking to someone back home.

Megan Walker: Meg is an Australian. We will hear about her story very soon. Meg's a Kajabi coach and a Launch Strategist. And we're going to be talking about getting started with Kajabi, demystifying some of the tech, a few clever ways to make it work in your favour, so that your online course can get into the hands of your students, and make a health improvement in their lives. Meg, tell us bit about yourself. Give us the background. How did you come across-

Meg Burrage: The 30 second story.

Megan Walker: ... Kajabi? Yeah.

Meg Burrage: Well, let's see. I am a mum of three, and I escaped the corporate world back in 2019. I used to work as a management consultant, which was so boring. Sorry to any management consultants out there. But I just, I always wanted to be doing something creative, and digital, and flexible, and on my own terms. So someone introduced me to the world of online courses in 2019, which is really not very long ago. And it's evolved from there into helping other people launch courses, running my own courses, building website templates. And I just have so much fun with it. This whole world of digital marketing is just so exciting. There's so many great people to meet. I've always been a traveler, so back in 2020, my Dutch husband and I decided to move to the Netherlands. So we're here now. Weather's crappy. And we look forward to, one day, coming home to Australia, but it's not quite yet.

Megan Walker: Fantastic. Wonderful. And so, the world of online courses, the people who are new to this space. I'm just trying to, my first foray was about 2018, getting into it and doing a course with one of the big course creators. And then, going, "Is this going to last? There seems to be so many people doing this. Does the world need this many courses?" What's your take on the growth that you've seen in this space? And oh, it's a bit hard to ask you a future prediction. But we're certainly running out, we're not running out of steam, are we Meg? Tell us about the.

Meg Burrage: Obviously, COVID's been a terrible time. But for the people in the online industry, it's probably just been the best thing that could have happened to anyone who ran an online business. Because a few years ago, if you took on a coach, where you joined a course, you just expected it to be in person, or for that coach to go to the effort of driving to a cafe and meeting you there in person. It was the idea of meeting someone on Zoom, it's just like, "Well, won't be as good if it's virtual."

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: And I need to see you in the flesh. And then, of course, COVID came along, and none of us could meet anyone. And I think we all just got so used to the flexibility and the convenience of working from wherever you wanted. But I don't think anyone wants to go back to the old way-

Megan Walker: No.

Meg Burrage: ... It's just so many people, in the last couple of years, have just grabbed on to the whole idea of digital marketing. And what's possible with just sharing their knowledge, and creating online courses, without any formal qualifications. It's this whole new world that's open to everybody, and it just is going from strength to strength, really. It's exploding.

Megan Walker: Yeah, absolutely. And tell me, what do you like about the platform that we both use and love? Tell me what you like about Kajabi, and what does Kajabi make possible for people who are interested in online courses?

Meg Burrage: Yeah. There are so many platforms out there now, and I've tried a lot of them. Kajabi's obviously not the cheapest, not the most expensive, but it's not the cheapest.

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: But it's one of those things where you get what you pay for, isn't it? It's like, "Oh, there's got to be something cheaper around." I've tried so many of the cheap ones, and just come back to Kajabi-

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: ... because it really is, for the most part, an all in one platform. It replaces any need for a marketing email system.

Megan Walker: Mm.

Meg Burrage: And they've just now introduced live videos. So one day, hopefully, you won't need your Zoom subscription. It's got all your funnels, your website hostings, so you don't need a horrible WordPress site. It's-

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: ... It's just everything in one, and easy. It's a, if you're not a techy person, then it is, like anything, I think, a bit of a steep learning curve, when you first get started. But-

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: ... once it clicks. Even now, I go and have a look at the newer platforms entering the market, and I think, "Okay. They've got a million bells and whistles, but how complicated are they?" They're just the setup of no, no, no, no. Kajabi is the most intuitive platform out there for this stuff. But I also think, as well as the platform, the community is just the best.

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: You get into their Facebook group, and it's just so inspiring, and motivating, to be among all these other people who are doing similar things, and they're all so encouraging. So for me, just the culture combined with the platform, makes it perfect.

Megan Walker: Yeah, I always see you in that Facebook group. I always see your name or someone talking about you, and I think, "Oh, good for you, mate. You really, you're a giver-"

Meg Burrage: Took us time to get in there and you are. You get in there, and you start reading everyone's success stories. And before you know it, you've been there for two hours. It's like, "Okay. I've just lost half my day. It's time to get out of here."

Megan Walker: ... Now, something I hear people say to me quite often, is, "I'm new to online course creation. I don't have my course created yet. I'm in the process of doing that." These brand new newbies. "Kajabi is expensive. What can I do, until I earn the money, to get onto Kajabi? Should I have a Dropbox and send people a link? Or should I just go ahead with Kajabi, and it will build it and they will come?" And it's like, which do you put first? Pay for the right platform and give a good user experience, or get by?

Meg Burrage: I think, for me, that would depend on how far away you think your program is ready to sell.

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: Because a lot of people put so much emphasis on growing their list, and they grow it so far in advance of when their program is going to be ready to sell, that their list is dead by the time they're actually ready to do anything-

Megan Walker: Or stale. Oh, no.

Meg Burrage: ... It's gone stale. And then, you're thinking, "How do I reengage these people? Who haven't heard from me for the last eight months." So I think it does come down to a matter of timing.

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: If you do have a lead magnet that's ready to go, and you've got a program that you believe is going to be ready to sell in the next three months, then, I think I would just take a leap of faith, and jump into Kajabi, and set it up with that great user experience, so that from the get go, you're collecting everyone's details, you've got them in a nurture email sequence, they're hearing from you regularly. And then, it doesn't come as a big surprise when you tell them about your wonderful program, that's now, now what, for sale.

Megan Walker: Perfect. Good advice. Very good. That's better than what I've been saying. I'm going to refer people back to this recording. Do what Meg said. Not what Megan said. But Meg, she was right. And when someone is wanting to get started on Kajabi, what are some of the things they need to be thinking about, that they need?

Meg Burrage: Look, some people go down a hybrid route where they keep their website somewhere else, like Squarespace, or WordPress, or somewhere, and just use Kajabi for courses and membership hosting.

Megan Walker: Sure.

Meg Burrage: And you can do that. I would say that is the quick setup, if you've already got a website that's working well for you. But then, of course, it means that you're having to maintain two different platforms. So I go to log into WordPress to make changes to my homepage, and then I go to log into Kajabi to go and do the other stuff. And because Kajabi has that functionality to be all in one, with me, I would just build my website on Kajabi, and have my courses and memberships in the one spot. But I think it doesn't need to be overly convoluted, and it doesn't need to be a ginormous website of a million pages, to get you up and running.

I know, it's so many of people, clients, students, that I see over the years, they just, they don't want to sell their program until they've got this finished, polished, extensive website. And I think, you don't need all that stuff. No. Maybe an about page would be great, because everyone's always curious.

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: And a bit of a homepage would be good. But other than that, really, the program pages, the funnels that you're going to be building, the registration for your webinar, those funnel pages are so much more important. And there's a million templates out there that you can get, to get your set up in no time at all. Kajabi's got inbuilt templates for you to just pick and choose from. There's a marketplace out there of a million templates, if you want to buy one. But really, with the help of a template and a little, a few hours, and maybe a slightly creative bone in your body, then, it doesn't take that long to get it set up. For me, Kajabi and Canva are the two things that are always open on my computer.

Megan Walker: Absolutely.

Meg Burrage: I could not do without Kajabi and Canva.

Megan Walker: And I was to, having a conversation with someone last year, and they said, "Look, I've got 18 different products. And the priority for me is having a funnel for each of those products." Tell me your thoughts around having a simple business model. Starting off with simplicity.

Meg Burrage: I need to think of somebody, Megan. I won't name anyone in case they listen to this afterwards. But with so many of my students are saying, "Guys, you just got to start. Choose one thing." It's like, go with the path of least resistance. And then, put it out there. Sell it. It's just, I have this one student who, just when you think she's about to sell this course she's been working on, she says, "Oh, before I can sell that one, I'm first going to go and build this one." And she just builds course after course, after course, without putting anything out there for sale. And I think, "Oh, it's not the way." Just create your first product. Put it out there. Get the feedback. And based on that feedback, and what your first group of students tell you, you'll be able to then work out what is the next thing to create.

But people do make things overly complicated, and there's so much money to be made. We're just keeping it simple. A small offer, a $27 little trip wire, then maybe a mini course, introductory course, then perhaps, your high ticket, signature program. Couple of thousand dollars. If you just stuck to those, you would remove-

Megan Walker: Yes, that's enough.

Meg Burrage: ... all your stress. Customers wouldn't be confused. You come to these websites that have got a million things on offer, and it's like, "Whew. Okay. Immediate overwhelm. I'm out of here."

Megan Walker: Absolutely.

Meg Burrage: So it needs to be simple and straightforward.

Megan Walker: Yes. Well said. Hooray, hooray. Okay, so.

Meg Burrage: I'll get off my high horse now.

Megan Walker: No, I love it. And now, I want you to tell us about templates. So you sell templates. Now, someone who's brand new to Kajabi, is going, "Template. Okay." A Microsoft Word template, PowerPoint template. What is a Kajabi template? Give us the absolute beginner explanation.

Meg Burrage: All right. So the templates that I do are website templates. So that's a template for your home page, your about page, your work with me page, your sales page, your webinar page. And I design them so that you get an end to end look and feel for your website. Every page you could possibly need, probably. It's probably, still, I could probably, there's a couple I could still add, but mostly everything's in there. Then, there's also out there, you could get templates for your courses and memberships. I don't do those, but for anyone out there who is looking to make their membership look amazing, go and have a look at Penny In Your Pocket. Another Australian who designs the most beautiful product templates, but there's templates for both. There's templates for products, and there is templates for websites.

Megan Walker: Okay.

Meg Burrage: And they just save you so much time. You do need some Canva skills to be able to change the colors, size your images, that stuff. But if you're pretty handy with Canva, or you know someone who is. And you can, got your Kajabi platform, then you can pretty much have a brand new website set up in a matter of days. Rather than, if you start from just a blank canvas with no design skills, it's going to take you weeks. And then, even then, you're going to be looking at it thinking, "I don't feel very..." It doesn't make you look very professional. Does it? 

Megan Walker: Looks like a school project.

Meg Burrage: Yeah. That's right. Which is not to say that someone's course isn't going to be amazing, if their website is not particularly attractive. But these days, people just subconsciously judge you from the minute they hop onto your website. If it doesn't look professional, and if the branding isn't quite nice, they just click away. So you have to capture them with that first impression.

Megan Walker: Very harsh. I always say that to my clients. Your clinical expertise and prowess is being gauged by the professionalism of your website. Which seems so counterintuitive, but there we have it. So that's great for the DIYs and the tinkerers who are happy, who got a good tech growth mindset, and can go in and say, "Yeah. I can get one of Meg's templates, and I'm comfortable changing the colors, and putting my own photos in." What about the folks who are a bit more, prefer to be tech hands off, for reasons of busyness, or fear, or whatever that trigger is? What can you recommend for those people that's in and around your wheelhouse?

Meg Burrage: Yeah. So well, I think it is a good idea to have a good understanding of the tech before you outsource it. And I always encourage people. Before you start outsourcing to freelancers, every single thing on your Kajabi site, at least get the basics down.

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: Now, for anyone who does end up with one of my template packs, I include 30 days access to my Kajabi training. And if you just went through the foundational stuff, you'd be miles ahead of most. At least you would comprehend what the platform can do and how it fits together, even if you don't want to do it yourself.

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: And then, if you want some help customising templates or designing a site from scratch, then, I mentor a group of lovely ladies, all ladies, at this point. Not to say we'll never have any men, but all ladies. It's called The Heart-Centered Apprentice.

And so, we have all these ladies going through a 12 month apprenticeship program, and they're Kajabi specialists, and they each have their own superpowers. And very used to creating Kajabi websites and automations, putting funnels together, and writing emails, and all the stuff. So I would send them in the direction of that Heart-Centered Apprentice directory.

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: Which, if anyone's Googling that, centered is spelt the American way, which it didn't used to be. But I partnered with a lovely lady in America to create this program, and we ended up going with the American spelling, so.

Megan Walker: Fair enough.

Meg Burrage: Yeah.

Megan Walker: Heart-Centered Apprentice. Centered. T-R-E-D.

Meg Burrage: Yes, centered. E-R-E-D.

Megan Walker: Yeah, E-R-E-D. Okay, got it. Right.

Meg Burrage: Yeah. heartcenteredapprentice.com.

Megan Walker: Okay, fantastic. I'll put a link below where we were talking, as well. Brilliant. Okay. That's such a huge relief, I'm sure, for so many people listening, going, "That's great, but I'm building my course. I've got my email list. Then, I've got a launch, and I've also got my current website." For a lot of my clients, they've got practice management software. And now, suddenly, people are talking about Canva, and it's a lot. It's very overwhelming, those steps. And I know I probably struggle with all of that stuff for about 12, 18 months, just going. And a few years ago, there wasn't as many people around helping. And which is no doubt why you've got your Heart-Centered Apprentices, because then we can have the access-

Meg Burrage: There's a huge demand for them. But we also-

Megan Walker: ... Mm.

Meg Burrage: ... found that there were a lot of people out there calling themselves Kajabi specialists or Kajabi experts.

Megan Walker: Oh.

Meg Burrage: And just delivering such terrible work. These horror stories in the industry of, "I just paid $3,000 to someone. And then, now they're ghosting me." And we are like, "We hear these stories all the time. We've got to do something about this." We need just a group of reliable people that apply, we hand pick them, we train them up, and we know they'll do a good job. So that's, really, how it came to be. But yes, the industry, it's just, as I mentioned, it's exploding. So there's so much work, that we do need a big number of people who can help.

Megan Walker: Yes. Fantastic idea. And so, as we start to wrap up, tell me, what's your top three? I want to give pearls of wisdom for someone who is new to course creation.

Meg Burrage: All right. I think, point one or tip one will be, just start. It's so easy to get in your own way, and to hide behind so many things that are not important. Having the extensive website, or having polished, edited videos that are ready to go. And it's, you wait for all these things to be in place, before you're willing to tell anyone that you actually have this program available. And I think, so many people do it backwards. It's-

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: ... for my students, I say, "Guys, you don't have to have the course recorded when you sell it. You don't have to have an extensive website. You have to have a sales page. You have to have a good freebie that warms up people before the sales page. And maybe it's a webinar. Maybe it's just a download."

Megan Walker: Checklist.

Meg Burrage: And then, once they join your program, give yourself a couple of weeks buffer, so that you can at least get more than one recorded. But don't feel that you have to have all eight modules recorded before you put it up for sale. Just start. You'll be amazed how motivating it is to get your program recorded, after people have joined your program.

Megan Walker: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Meg Burrage: Like, "Oh, I've just get my skates on here." So tip one, just start. Tip two, I would say, if you are going to, you're preparing for a launch, I would say, always give yourself double the amount of time that you think you need.

Megan Walker: Amen.

Meg Burrage: I work with a lot of people who say to me, "Oh, okay. Well, I'm just going to build my website. And then, I'm going to sell my course, and we are going to start in the next, I'm going to start running the course in three weeks." It's like, "What?"

Megan Walker: Nope.

Meg Burrage: It's just, even if I could get you your website, and your funnels, and your course, and everything ready to go in three weeks, how much time are you giving yourself to market it? People need to be hearing about you. You need that runway-

Megan Walker: Lead them.

Meg Burrage: ... You need to talking to people, writing blogs, turning up on lives. Doing all the things. And that runway period, people always cut themselves short. It's like-

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: ... just give yourself twice as long as you think you need.

Megan Walker: Yes.

Meg Burrage: So don't want to dishearten anyone, but this stuff does take time. And if you don't give yourself any marketing runway, then, you wonder why you've only got one or two students, who signed up to your program. And it's like, "Well."

Megan Walker: You didn't tell anyone. Yeah.

Meg Burrage: Didn't tell anyone. Number three. My point number three, would be to build your programs. The model of program and your launch style, around your personality and your lifestyle. Things like your time, availability. There are so many people out there who are like, "You need to launch this with a webinar." And the creators are like, "Well, I hate the idea of live video. This is just making my stomach churn." It's like, "Well, if it's going to cause you a nervous breakdown, don't launch through the webinar. There's plenty of other ways to launch." Or you need to run a membership. It's like, well, do you want to be locked into an open ended membership, where you are creating content every week or month, forever?" It's like, well.

Megan Walker: On Christmas day.

Meg Burrage: Yeah. Pick the model and the strategy that actually works for you, because there's plenty out there. And you don't need to be doing whatever the latest guru told you to do. You'll find your own way, your own groove.

Megan Walker: And I would, they're beautiful pearls. I would add one more and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one, is choose the topic that's got high enough desirability, but more importantly, enough audience willing to pay.

Meg Burrage: Mm.

Megan Walker: Don't chase a free audience.

Meg Burrage: Yep. That's good. And I think, on that, especially when you're coming up with freebies and things. I know it's like, "How many tips you got?" But.

Megan Walker: More pearls.

Meg Burrage: Yeah, more pearls. But I say, if you're going to design a freebie, aim the freebie at the beginners, in that-

Megan Walker: Ah-

Meg Burrage: ... niche. That market.

Megan Walker: ... I like it.

Meg Burrage: Because there's so many more beginners out there looking for help. Once you get started, and you don't consider yourself a beginner anymore, and you've been doing whatever it is, for a year plus, you already know the courses that you want to join, and the people you want to follow, and you're not actively on social media looking for that initial help. So you have this much bigger pool of beginners looking for stuff, so don't create a lead magnet that's targeting people who are not beginner level.

Megan Walker: Yes. That's such good, I like that one. I really like that a lot, because I think, a lot of people who are listening to this interview, are super, highly intelligent people. Academics. Spent a lot of time at university. It's a real challenge to go back to the absolute baby steps of something. The other challenge is over stuffing, because there is so much wisdom pouring out of these amazing people, that it's like, "Break it, right." I always say, maybe the client doesn't want a metabolic reset. They just want to fit into their jeans next week, for a high school reunion.

Meg Burrage: Yeah. Absolutely. They do say, they say in this industry, "Aim it at the Grade Three people, who would understand." And I do read with my students, a lot of lead magnets or sales pages, that talk about something that I'm like, "I don't even know what that means. Guys, can you just, can you translate that for me into layman's speak."

Megan Walker: Yes. Lay person.

Meg Burrage: Yeah.

Megan Walker: Fantastic. Meg, was there anything you wanted me to ask that I haven't, or any other tips or thoughts?

Meg Burrage: I don't think so, but it's been a pleasure hanging out with you, Megan.

Megan Walker: Absolutely. Yes. And so, tell us, with people who are interested, so we're going to put the link below, to the Heart-Centered Apprentices, and also to your templates, if people-

Meg Burrage: Sure.

Megan Walker: ... to find out more about that.

Meg Burrage: I also have, pretty, for people who are wondering what model of programs to create, I have quite a useful quiz, that, seven questions that will lead you to few suggestions around programs you could consider creating, and the launch strategies that go with them. So-

Megan Walker: Oh, I like it.

Meg Burrage: ... it might get them off to a, just a quick start. A bit of a shortcut. If they're wondering, "Where to, from here?"

Megan Walker: I love it. Thank you so much, Meg. It's been very generous and very helpful, and it's just so exciting to hear another person doing amazing work in this space, and the huge opportunities that can come through an online course. It's certainly not saturated. There's plenty of scope, plenty of room for everyone, isn't there?

Meg Burrage: Absolutely.

Megan Walker: The grass is still very green.

Meg Burrage: I did wonder in the beginning, when I first started, it's like, "Oh, is the market saturated?" Or I'd worked with a client and I'd think, "Is there really a market for that?" But I've seen over the years, there is literally a market for everything and pretty much everyone, because you'll find an audience who just resonates with you and your personality. But-

Megan Walker: Yeah.

Meg Burrage: ... I've seen courses on, students in my program now, are doing everything from astrology, to career coaching, to just whatever. Dog training.

Megan Walker: Dog training. I was going to say, there's so many dog trainers, dog training courses.

Meg Burrage: Can you even do that online? But apparently, you can.

Megan Walker: I love it. And they go, "Oh, I run a seven figure dog training business." And you're like, "Okay. Great. Go you." I love this notion of, create your life. This is such a great way to do that. What fires you up? And what lights you up? And then, we've never had that-

Meg Burrage: Find something I'm passionate about, and then, just share it with others. That's only got to be that hard.

Megan Walker: So cool. We could talk all day, all night.

Meg Burrage: I know. I know.

Megan Walker: I love it. Thank you, Meg.

Meg Burrage: Come one. 10 more tips. But we won't.

Megan Walker: Next time. 10 more tips. Thanks so much, Meg. It's been fantastic. We'll talk to you soon.

Meg Burrage: Pleasure talking to you. Thanks, Megan.

Megan Walker: Bye.

Meg Burrage: Thank you. Bye.

 

Links and further information

Samples of Meg Burrage's free Kajabi templates.

Heart-Centered Apprentice Directory.